Index AI interview with Eric Chamberlain
by
Evan South
2009
Can you give us some basic background on yourself and the transition from Index to IndexAI?
Index started around 1993. I had been producing some electro before that, but it was more influenced by the west coast hip hop scene than anything that you might call industrial or anything related to it. But I was listening to a mixture of things and I wanted to mix the tech nature of something like Kraftwerk with the feeling of the west coast music that was popular at the time. Add to that the atmospheric and emotional quality of early OMD and other things like Vangelis, and that's sort of what inspired my early work. By the time I met Kurt Luette and Cody Cast, I was listening to 242, Skinny Puppy. I still like all of that, especially stuff like the older Front Line Assembly. So, that's where it started. Kurt was on one EP, and Cody was on one full length. I kept the name going but it always sort of nagged me, that it was the same even though it was just me. But everybody identifies what I do by that name, so I had to find a way to keep it yet make it evolve, thus Index AI came about. Musically, the same dream and desire for this electronic music is there, but the name is really my own as Index AI. Ironically, I may work again with Cody for the second part of Topiary En Hades, but that's just one of those funny things in life.
Your music is known for being very complex and multi-layered. How did you come to compose music this way, as opposed to your standard bass and synth line with a beat?
I, as a kid, always admired Vangelis for his ability to create ambience. But when I discovered electro, way back in 1983, I found a rhythm. I imagined mixing it together. I started with just a drum machine and some turntables. As the years went by I learned to find my own voice, and one thing I discovered about myself was that every time I listened to electronic music, it was creating a landscape in my mind, as if the very sounds themselves had a physical representation, and that I could see it. So inspiring. So when I really started to write for myself, with the first Index, I wanted to try for myself to recreate that idea, that sounds could inspire a visual representation. So a string sound would represent the sky above the land, which was represented by the rhythm, and all the little electronic sounds represented the curious life-forms that inhabit that landscape. So in my earlier work I just packed it all in with that desire to create a picture with music. Recently I have tried to tighten the songs up, without losing the ambience, and try to get that landscape mentality across more efficiently. You'll notice in my newer music, going back to World Blade Center, I started using fewer obvious samples. I just wanted the texture of it. But I sample everything you could imagine. Sometimes I leave the sample relatively clean, like the sample of Ronald Reagan on Crayon Sky, but most of the time I twist those samples around, and it just sort of contributes to the Index sound. Like it was meant to be. I sample people, media, wildlife, strange instruments like the waterphone, I scraped the inside of a piano and recorded it. The very last song on the new Index, it's called Verdigris Empire, that has a sample of an electrical transformer changing positions and creating an arc of energy, when I saw that I was inspired with awe and I knew I had to put that in the very last track, because it represents the emotional quality of the whole record, right in one sound. So I take all these sounds and try to figure out how I can put them together in a coherent fashion, that fits with my sound as Index or whatever, and create that sonic landscape.
Ultra Hard Shadow was released in late 2000 and it took 5 years for World Blade Center to come out. What was happening in that span of time?
Basically I was pursuing another career and trying to figure out my musical situation and direction. I had become disillusioned with some things, and I was trying to adapt. Trying to figure myself out. I sort of wish I had never stopped, but I needed the time to reflect or else become burned out. People reacted, WTF? Where did he go? But it was necessary. I had really reached a low place in life, without understanding it immediately. So I had to figure that out, figure out how to be happy, it was like starting over. That took a long time, a really long time. Not a few months, almost a decade in total. It's hard to describe, but I am doing the same thing I wanted to, as before, but now it's like my foot is down in the right place and things work.
On the same subject, it has been a much shorter span between WBC and Topiary in Hades, yet you are releasing 3-4 times as much material. What was the inspiration or catharsis for this?
Going back to the previous question, I was able to more or less figure out how to be content, and I was able to make things happen. So there was a lot of personal stuff that was going on, a lot of it unpleasant, frankly, but there was also the process of doing it, the process itself. I got really bored with how I was doing the music I had been doing. I felt I had pulled everything out that I could, how I was writing it, and I really needed another approach. Getting into software-based music, mixing that with some of what I had before, has really opened the door for me to explore in a way that wasn't possible before. I feel like things are now really easy for me in a way that I don't have to think about that process, I can just instantly write what's in my head. So that ideal situation has led to me writing much more. If you mix those two ideas, one, improving my perspective, and two, a brand new way of producing, it really made a lot more possible and I am running with it.
How was it changing from a long time label relationship to being self-released?
Well, I'm really grateful for the opportunity to work with COP Intl, that's how people came to know me. I'm very ambitious and I wanted to release more material, different projects with different tones and style, but, looking at it from a business perspective, a label can't easily deal with that when they are also trying to promote other projects at the same time. And you know, the music that these bands produce is important to them, and the label wants to help them, so, for COP to concentrate on what I wanted to do would be unfair, in a way, to the others. But it's different for each label, we all have our priorities. The upside is I make exactly what I want. It's beautiful. The more difficult side is, you have to do everything yourself. It's a challenge. As it is right now, I love producing all this different music on my own, but I would definitely be interested in having some kind of working relationship with a label. Aside from what's practical, it's also enjoyable to work with people who enjoy the same music.
You've been very prolific as of late. Is this all new material in conjunction with releasing older material that's been building up? Also can you give us a breakdown of the projects?
A couple of the tracks here and there are older, unreleased tracks, but like on the Index and the Telepheriq Chamberlain, that's all new. One track on the latter, it's an older one from a project that never was released properly. And then I have the other electro project, which is new but has a couple of electro tracks that were going to be on a Skylash release. But even those tracks are new, only a few months old. The breakdown is like this. Index AI, Topiary En Hades (part 1), this is a full length in the traditional Index form that is familiar to people. The song structures are a little more tight than before, but it's dark-ish electro. I'm very pleased with it. It has it's aggressive moments, but it also has ethereal, introspective moments, and I feel that it ranks up at the top compared with any other Index or Index AI release. I've also got one called Telepheriq Chamberlain, which is an instrumental full length of ambient, glitchy electro. I hate trying to categorize this one because it's really just music without any attempt to belong to any genre. I really love it. That CD is called Eric Chamberlain Music, which I hope reflects the lack of genre. I was really inspired for the work on this one and I did it while also working on Topiary En Hades. I have yet another release coming, a full length of electro that goes back to my origins mentioned earlier with some of the west coast inspiration. This is called Coconaut: Evenings In Eternity, and it mixes together everything I have ever loved about electro. I'm really excited about it.
Give us some more detail and insight into the Coconaut project...
Again, I am very excited about Coconaut. It's basically an electro/dance project. I wanted a name that was very open and fun, so I mixed Coconut and Astronaut and came up with Coconaut. It's just really upbeat electronic instrumental music. Imagine being on a beach in the tropics, with palm trees around, at dusk, and you are listening to groovy electronic music that is inspired by the 80s West Coast electronic scene. Pure bliss, just music to make you feel good. This could have very well been the next Skylash CD, but it has a more obvious electro feel and I always wanted to use the name Coconaut, so that's what it is, Coconaut, Evenings In Eternity. Imagine your greatest memories as a kid, your first love, the things that warm your heart, that childlike innocence. That is what Coconaut is all about. Some of my finest electro ever is on this CD, and it has been one of my dreams to release this music. Prepare to be on cloud 9 when you listen. Electro heaven.
You also plan to re-release another side project of yours, Nom Silencieux. Tell us about this project and the decision to put it out again.
This is an instrumental ambient project I did a while back. I am tweaking it a slight bit and re-releasing it. The music for NS was something I had always wanted to. I have always loved ambient music, it's sort of my secret favorite thing, the thing that people maybe would never guess about me. While NS (The title is Eyes Are Clocks) has the occasional slight rhythmic element, it really is the result of my love of ambient music and my desire to do my own take on it. It's very surreal, often spacious and based on my perpetual notion that sound can create something visual in your mind, it can create a place, and I love that. Nom Silencieux is like music from a dream. It was never properly released, only a few copies on a CDR, so this will be a proper release, I'm excited about it. But I want to make it a little more current with how I can create textures and ambience. I really hope people check it out because it's an important part of the whole musical vision.
When you originally did Skylash you had plans to add male or female vocals to the instrumentals. Have you thought again of writing music with other vocalists or collaborators in mind?
Absolutely! I always dream that I can find a vocalist who can inject a brilliant, soul-stirring voice. Something that is passionate. Somebody whose voice will bring tears to your eyes. If that's you, then contact me, we'll do a record. Don't be shy, believe in yourself!
Over the years with all these projects you have created a large body of music. What is your goal, or what are ultimately trying to accomplish with your work?
I want to make a difference in my own small way. I want people to be inspired, to see beyond their daily routine. If only one person listens to my music and decides that they should make a positive difference in the world, then I have succeeded. Everything I do, whether it is Index or Skylash, Coconaut or anything else, it is meant to be a light. Especially with Index, the best way to describe it is, it's a lone, singular light in a dark wilderness. And I want everyone to know that you can lift yourselves up and serve humanity, and all creatures, for that matter. If my music in some small way can inspire that glint, that spark, then I have done my job. When I die, I want people to think that I left a positive mark on the world. Since I communicate through music, I figure that's my best shot. The way that I have been inspired, by Front 242, Kraftwerk, Vangelis, Davol, Egyptian Lover, too many others to mention, I humbly hope that in my own small way that I can create that feeling of warmth and energy for others. I would really like to do music for film. Hell, I want to make my own film, but composing like that, contributing to another's vision, I think I could do that really well and I hope one day that I can accomplish that. I produce a lot of different music, not just these CDs but for TV and other projects. I really love music as a whole, seeing people express themselves inspires me no matter what type of music it is, and I hope I can always find a way to mix that passion into my own music. I produce electro, hip hop, trip hop, dance, trance, neoclassical...I mix it all together.
The new album will be split into 2 parts rather than a double cd release. Tell us about the new album and the choice to release the discs separately.
I had the material for a double CD ready, but the problem was that it just sounded like two typical Index CDs stuck in one package. What I really wanted to do was have the first one be like a typical Index release, and the second darker and more aggressive, more atmospheric, and I know I made the right choice, because it means more, artistically, as a set of CDs that way. So you've got the first one, which represents the "Topiary", and the second, which is "Hades", while both at once hold the concept of beauty within darkness. It's just real. And as weird as some who know me think I am, this IS who I am, and every time I do one of these CDs it feels great because I am expressing what's inside, and everybody needs a way to do that. This is my way. Darkness and light, twisted together. There are some dark themes on this record, but never without the possibility of something positive, and that will be found in the words. On the surface it may seem dark, but if you really grasp it, people will actually see that it's positive. Also, a friend of mine urged me to make it two releases simply for economic reasons. So, I figured, I will release the first one now, that way people won't have to wait any longer for some music, and at the same time I can work the second part in the darker way I described. So I'm very pleased about that.
Can you go into more detail about the new album, such as themes and ideas?
Well, aside from what I mentioned about being inspired again because of writing in a different way, and also using different technology, there was a very personal reason behind it all. I felt likeI had time to reflect on life. That takes time, and then that comes back around to the songs.Topiary En Hades is very spiritual for me, for this moment in life. I really express myself in away that I have not before. So when you compare that idea to my lyrics, you might really see that I am talking about something at least semi-spiritual in every song, but the reason the songs are sometimes dark is because I am reflecting the often sad, or unpleasant human condition.On this record, you will see a new optimism in darkness. It's my life. I have been through hell, Imiraculously survived in spite of my own shortcomings, and now I am turning the corner and,hopefully, starting to shine as a human being for the first time in my life. I just have to say this, Ifound God to some extent. But I can't write lyrics about everything being positive without reflecting on the negative things I have been through. It fits perfectly with the Index tradition of mixing darkness and the light, which has always been the case. Only now, it means more to me as a person than ever.
Crayon Sky is perhaps your most personal song to date. Tell us about this track off of TEH1...
I think it's the most directly personal song, for sure. This song is basically about finding who I am. To use a metaphor, I was wandering in the desert my whole life without even realizing it. I've always thought I was a pretty good guy, but still lost, and I thought that maybe nobody knows me like that, knows who I really am. It feels that way. So the combination of not feeling lost anymore, in a spiritual sense, finding myself, but at the same as it's good, it's humbling because you suddenly look at your past and all you see is a life in ruin. It's like starting over. Maybe everybody does that in their own way, this was my particular path. Index has always been a bit more shadowy with the lyrics, but for this one I wanted to be a bit more direct about it. In another way, one might imagine it is about Satan. He got lost, he fell hard. At the end I say that only God knows my name. That's because I was arrogant and I thought I didn't need God, as Satan did. I learned the hardest way that I am actually mortal, so the song is my attempt to humbly fix my arrogance.
Recently you have spoken of your health issues and subsequent spiritual experience. Can you tell us about this and how it has impacted your life and your music?
Well, I'm pretty healthy now. But a while back, I wasn't. I was into a bad way of life. I was quite arrogant, you know, and a lot of negative things were defining my path and, unfortunately, I really didn't grasp the severity of it. There's a funny saying, something about how some people don't see God until they are flat on their backs. Well, that's sort of how it was for me, although I actually went through a rather long-term spiritual transformation. I reached a point where I figured out that I was on the wrong path, and, to put it simply, I went for a walk and asked God for help. It's actually funny to think about now, because it was very awkward for me, being the atheist I was. So it makes me laugh now, but I was in dire straights at the time so I figured I would try reaching out. Nobody could be more surprised than I that I received a response in the form of a brief mental vision of the entire universe. It's difficult to convey this moment, but I personally knew this was a response, it was very clear to me. My life feels different now. I feel like the same person, in that I have everything that was good about me, but different in that all the bad stuff has been replaced by new improvements and additions. It's an amazing thing, it really is. It makes me feel humble and great at the same moment. I really do not know how this has changed the music, other than what I am feeling when I write. Even though what I write now sounds like other stuff that I do, the energy that drives it is now positive where before it was negative. Being OK now, some time later, after lying in a hospital bed in the ER, not knowing if I would leave that place alive, it really makes you pause for a moment. I think it's something that effects all aspects of my life, sometimes indirectly, like with music, sometimes directly, like how I view others. It makes me feel bad that I had such a bad attitude about God for so long, only to find out the hard way that others were right and were only trying to help, be kind, etc. Better late than never, I suppose.
15 years ago you were the up-and comer and now you are the established veteran (akin to being "that old guy" at the club). How has that transition been and what advice would you give to the new up-and-comers based on your own experiences?
It's strange to be the old guy at the club. I used to see older people at the club and think, hey, that's funny. Now that's me. So, my friends and I laugh about it. But things are more open now than before, nobody cares now, it's all just mixed together. I don't go out to clubs that much, anyway, but it's humorous to consider. Our lives are not defined by just one thing, just music, or just design, but by everything, and sometimes people only know us for one thing, so it's not a complete picture. I've written a children's book, worked on advertising and design, animation and motion graphics, I'm into a lot of military and foreign policy stuff, but people reading this only know me as the Index guy. But even within music, I also write straight electro, house, trance, glitchy, ambient. So much of who we are is unknown to others. My advice would be, just be nice to everybody. Don't make any assumptions about how good you are, don't believe your own press. Just be humble and happy with the fact that you are doing what you want, and try your best at it. Everything passes in this world, so just enjoy it in the moment and be humble about it. Things may not be perfect, but think about how many others would love to do something like this but can't. Be grateful. Know yourself, know what you can do best, and then do it as best you can while you grow. Don't envy. My father was in the 82nd Airborne, the Special Forces, he fought in wars, lost a brother in Vietnam, he was awarded a Purple Heart and the Silver Cross and he retired a colonel. In fact I believe if it wasn't for politics he would have received the Congressional Medal of Honor. He never complains about that. I wish I could be as great as he is, but I'm not. Do the best you can with what you have, and be thankful that you can do it.
You have been making music for well over 15 years now, and you've never felt any sort of attachment to any label, genre , or "scene". Why is that and has that helped or hurt you, especially never being a "club" band?
I'm so inspired by so many types of music, art, architecture, and other things that I was always about using the best of those influences, and that being good enough, rather than trying to fit neatly into one scene and saying that I belong. Honestly, I do feel a strong connection to post industrial and dark electro, but I don't like so much labeling what I do as such because it belies the other influences. I think, commercially speaking, it has both helped and hurt. For those who are brand and genre oriented, Index was either too industrial for the techno people, too techno for the hip hop people, and too hip hop for the industrial people. Imagine a record label trying to market that. So it was a challenge that way, while at the same time we're in an era when more and more people expect music to just be mixed up, music for the sake of music, not pandering to a genre so a label can sell records. In that regard, Index has succeeded, and that's anadvantage that I look for. I do like club music, but that's not what was inspiring me at the start, so when I started writing my own stuff, I wasn't thinking about it working in a club environment.
You have been influenced by many artists and now you are being listed as an influence by many current artists. How do you react to that?
I really was influenced by many. In the beginning, stuff like early OMD, early 242, early electro stuff, it really made me think, I want to do this! And I still have that drive today. It's flattering to have people say that I have influenced their music. That's something I never saw coming so that's really nice. I appreciate that. I went through a period where I didn't know if what I wrote was worth anything, so gradually finding out, having people tell me that I influenced their music, that's a pretty big deal. That makes it all worth it, really, in its own unexpected way.
No one has seen what you look like until now. Do you think it is important to put a face to the music?
It probably is! It usually is for the sake of promotion I always felt silly doing the rock star thing, that didn't go over well for me. So not having tons of photos was part of that. On the other hand, I think by now people should be able to see how I am. I'm OK with that. You always see these photos of bands, look how wonderful we are. But on the other hand, fans like to see what you look like.
You have played live as Index a handful of times but not since the mid-nineties. Did you always envision Index as a live project and how would you imagine playing live in the future?
We saw it as something that should have a serious visual element, mostly in the form of video and motion graphics as a backdrop. We tried to meet that objective, but really it was never at the level we wanted because we simply couldn't afford it. The only way Index can be done live properly is for that visual element to exist. It would also require some extra hands, as I am only one guy and me standing in front of a computer, I'm not sure if that would cut it with the fans. On the other hand, for other music, such as the more dance/electro material that I am doing, I think that approach would be more plausible and appropriate, kind of a mixture of a DJ and live setting. I could see that happening for some of my other material, and also because I wouldn't have the issue of vocals to deal with. I can't do the vocals and deal with the instrumentation/laptop side at the same time. I have seen some other acts, doing similar music live with such a setup, but I never really saw Index being done that way. I always saw Index live as more of a band environment but maybe that needs to change.
You have a knack for word play when it comes to your lyrics, song and album titles. How does this tie in to the music?
I've played with words like that my whole life. Spoken as well as written. I don't think it's anything intentional, but I like how the mixing of words ties in with the idea of mixing tones in my music, like mixing dark with light. That goes back to my personality, I think. It 's funny how certain people think alike, in really unexpected, creative ways. I used to write everything backwards, as a kid. And I found one of my early influential artists, Egyptian Lover, doing backwords words in his music and on his 12" labels. So, not only did the music really connect with me and inspire me, but even little details like playing with words were the same. Lots of people are like that, we just have to find one another.
You do graphic design and multimedia work. Most of your cd's had artwork and design from others. Will you be taking over the look of your albums now?
I've always wanted to contribute to the look of the older releases. Sometimes the ideas got through, sometimes not. One of the good things about that was allowing another artist to add a personal interpretation. Overall, though, I prefer to just do it myself now, unless somebody offers a great idea, in which case I might be flattered and compelled to let them do it. But I really like the idea that, I wrote the music, and the lyrics, executed that, so it makes sense that I would complete the vision by also doing the visual work for it. If anybody wanted to contribute video work then I would be a lot more open minded, just for the fact that I don't have time to do everything at that level.
Up through your Black Light Twilight album your setup had been just 2 analogue synths and a sampler. Have you kept it pretty much the same over the years or have you experimented with digital or software based tools?
I felt really limited by the hardware. I was using an ASR-10, a Jupiter 6, and a Nord lead. And I'll tell you, I enjoyed that set up, but I got bored with it, and I felt like there were some things I could do more with soft tools. So I gravitated to soft synths, sequencers, etc and it really opened up a whole new world. I work more efficiently now, and it opens doors because I am afforded more time to play with different ideas. A lot of serendipitous things happen that way, so it's good. What I produce now is a mixture of soft stuff with samples. Whatever sound source I can get my hands on, I will use it.
Final thoughts/comments?
Just that I had a great time writing this CD. I had such a great time writing this, it's been a while since I enjoyed writing this much. I thank everybody for their support, and I hope you like it and my other work as well.
by
Evan South
2009
Can you give us some basic background on yourself and the transition from Index to IndexAI?
Index started around 1993. I had been producing some electro before that, but it was more influenced by the west coast hip hop scene than anything that you might call industrial or anything related to it. But I was listening to a mixture of things and I wanted to mix the tech nature of something like Kraftwerk with the feeling of the west coast music that was popular at the time. Add to that the atmospheric and emotional quality of early OMD and other things like Vangelis, and that's sort of what inspired my early work. By the time I met Kurt Luette and Cody Cast, I was listening to 242, Skinny Puppy. I still like all of that, especially stuff like the older Front Line Assembly. So, that's where it started. Kurt was on one EP, and Cody was on one full length. I kept the name going but it always sort of nagged me, that it was the same even though it was just me. But everybody identifies what I do by that name, so I had to find a way to keep it yet make it evolve, thus Index AI came about. Musically, the same dream and desire for this electronic music is there, but the name is really my own as Index AI. Ironically, I may work again with Cody for the second part of Topiary En Hades, but that's just one of those funny things in life.
Your music is known for being very complex and multi-layered. How did you come to compose music this way, as opposed to your standard bass and synth line with a beat?
I, as a kid, always admired Vangelis for his ability to create ambience. But when I discovered electro, way back in 1983, I found a rhythm. I imagined mixing it together. I started with just a drum machine and some turntables. As the years went by I learned to find my own voice, and one thing I discovered about myself was that every time I listened to electronic music, it was creating a landscape in my mind, as if the very sounds themselves had a physical representation, and that I could see it. So inspiring. So when I really started to write for myself, with the first Index, I wanted to try for myself to recreate that idea, that sounds could inspire a visual representation. So a string sound would represent the sky above the land, which was represented by the rhythm, and all the little electronic sounds represented the curious life-forms that inhabit that landscape. So in my earlier work I just packed it all in with that desire to create a picture with music. Recently I have tried to tighten the songs up, without losing the ambience, and try to get that landscape mentality across more efficiently. You'll notice in my newer music, going back to World Blade Center, I started using fewer obvious samples. I just wanted the texture of it. But I sample everything you could imagine. Sometimes I leave the sample relatively clean, like the sample of Ronald Reagan on Crayon Sky, but most of the time I twist those samples around, and it just sort of contributes to the Index sound. Like it was meant to be. I sample people, media, wildlife, strange instruments like the waterphone, I scraped the inside of a piano and recorded it. The very last song on the new Index, it's called Verdigris Empire, that has a sample of an electrical transformer changing positions and creating an arc of energy, when I saw that I was inspired with awe and I knew I had to put that in the very last track, because it represents the emotional quality of the whole record, right in one sound. So I take all these sounds and try to figure out how I can put them together in a coherent fashion, that fits with my sound as Index or whatever, and create that sonic landscape.
Ultra Hard Shadow was released in late 2000 and it took 5 years for World Blade Center to come out. What was happening in that span of time?
Basically I was pursuing another career and trying to figure out my musical situation and direction. I had become disillusioned with some things, and I was trying to adapt. Trying to figure myself out. I sort of wish I had never stopped, but I needed the time to reflect or else become burned out. People reacted, WTF? Where did he go? But it was necessary. I had really reached a low place in life, without understanding it immediately. So I had to figure that out, figure out how to be happy, it was like starting over. That took a long time, a really long time. Not a few months, almost a decade in total. It's hard to describe, but I am doing the same thing I wanted to, as before, but now it's like my foot is down in the right place and things work.
On the same subject, it has been a much shorter span between WBC and Topiary in Hades, yet you are releasing 3-4 times as much material. What was the inspiration or catharsis for this?
Going back to the previous question, I was able to more or less figure out how to be content, and I was able to make things happen. So there was a lot of personal stuff that was going on, a lot of it unpleasant, frankly, but there was also the process of doing it, the process itself. I got really bored with how I was doing the music I had been doing. I felt I had pulled everything out that I could, how I was writing it, and I really needed another approach. Getting into software-based music, mixing that with some of what I had before, has really opened the door for me to explore in a way that wasn't possible before. I feel like things are now really easy for me in a way that I don't have to think about that process, I can just instantly write what's in my head. So that ideal situation has led to me writing much more. If you mix those two ideas, one, improving my perspective, and two, a brand new way of producing, it really made a lot more possible and I am running with it.
How was it changing from a long time label relationship to being self-released?
Well, I'm really grateful for the opportunity to work with COP Intl, that's how people came to know me. I'm very ambitious and I wanted to release more material, different projects with different tones and style, but, looking at it from a business perspective, a label can't easily deal with that when they are also trying to promote other projects at the same time. And you know, the music that these bands produce is important to them, and the label wants to help them, so, for COP to concentrate on what I wanted to do would be unfair, in a way, to the others. But it's different for each label, we all have our priorities. The upside is I make exactly what I want. It's beautiful. The more difficult side is, you have to do everything yourself. It's a challenge. As it is right now, I love producing all this different music on my own, but I would definitely be interested in having some kind of working relationship with a label. Aside from what's practical, it's also enjoyable to work with people who enjoy the same music.
You've been very prolific as of late. Is this all new material in conjunction with releasing older material that's been building up? Also can you give us a breakdown of the projects?
A couple of the tracks here and there are older, unreleased tracks, but like on the Index and the Telepheriq Chamberlain, that's all new. One track on the latter, it's an older one from a project that never was released properly. And then I have the other electro project, which is new but has a couple of electro tracks that were going to be on a Skylash release. But even those tracks are new, only a few months old. The breakdown is like this. Index AI, Topiary En Hades (part 1), this is a full length in the traditional Index form that is familiar to people. The song structures are a little more tight than before, but it's dark-ish electro. I'm very pleased with it. It has it's aggressive moments, but it also has ethereal, introspective moments, and I feel that it ranks up at the top compared with any other Index or Index AI release. I've also got one called Telepheriq Chamberlain, which is an instrumental full length of ambient, glitchy electro. I hate trying to categorize this one because it's really just music without any attempt to belong to any genre. I really love it. That CD is called Eric Chamberlain Music, which I hope reflects the lack of genre. I was really inspired for the work on this one and I did it while also working on Topiary En Hades. I have yet another release coming, a full length of electro that goes back to my origins mentioned earlier with some of the west coast inspiration. This is called Coconaut: Evenings In Eternity, and it mixes together everything I have ever loved about electro. I'm really excited about it.
Give us some more detail and insight into the Coconaut project...
Again, I am very excited about Coconaut. It's basically an electro/dance project. I wanted a name that was very open and fun, so I mixed Coconut and Astronaut and came up with Coconaut. It's just really upbeat electronic instrumental music. Imagine being on a beach in the tropics, with palm trees around, at dusk, and you are listening to groovy electronic music that is inspired by the 80s West Coast electronic scene. Pure bliss, just music to make you feel good. This could have very well been the next Skylash CD, but it has a more obvious electro feel and I always wanted to use the name Coconaut, so that's what it is, Coconaut, Evenings In Eternity. Imagine your greatest memories as a kid, your first love, the things that warm your heart, that childlike innocence. That is what Coconaut is all about. Some of my finest electro ever is on this CD, and it has been one of my dreams to release this music. Prepare to be on cloud 9 when you listen. Electro heaven.
You also plan to re-release another side project of yours, Nom Silencieux. Tell us about this project and the decision to put it out again.
This is an instrumental ambient project I did a while back. I am tweaking it a slight bit and re-releasing it. The music for NS was something I had always wanted to. I have always loved ambient music, it's sort of my secret favorite thing, the thing that people maybe would never guess about me. While NS (The title is Eyes Are Clocks) has the occasional slight rhythmic element, it really is the result of my love of ambient music and my desire to do my own take on it. It's very surreal, often spacious and based on my perpetual notion that sound can create something visual in your mind, it can create a place, and I love that. Nom Silencieux is like music from a dream. It was never properly released, only a few copies on a CDR, so this will be a proper release, I'm excited about it. But I want to make it a little more current with how I can create textures and ambience. I really hope people check it out because it's an important part of the whole musical vision.
When you originally did Skylash you had plans to add male or female vocals to the instrumentals. Have you thought again of writing music with other vocalists or collaborators in mind?
Absolutely! I always dream that I can find a vocalist who can inject a brilliant, soul-stirring voice. Something that is passionate. Somebody whose voice will bring tears to your eyes. If that's you, then contact me, we'll do a record. Don't be shy, believe in yourself!
Over the years with all these projects you have created a large body of music. What is your goal, or what are ultimately trying to accomplish with your work?
I want to make a difference in my own small way. I want people to be inspired, to see beyond their daily routine. If only one person listens to my music and decides that they should make a positive difference in the world, then I have succeeded. Everything I do, whether it is Index or Skylash, Coconaut or anything else, it is meant to be a light. Especially with Index, the best way to describe it is, it's a lone, singular light in a dark wilderness. And I want everyone to know that you can lift yourselves up and serve humanity, and all creatures, for that matter. If my music in some small way can inspire that glint, that spark, then I have done my job. When I die, I want people to think that I left a positive mark on the world. Since I communicate through music, I figure that's my best shot. The way that I have been inspired, by Front 242, Kraftwerk, Vangelis, Davol, Egyptian Lover, too many others to mention, I humbly hope that in my own small way that I can create that feeling of warmth and energy for others. I would really like to do music for film. Hell, I want to make my own film, but composing like that, contributing to another's vision, I think I could do that really well and I hope one day that I can accomplish that. I produce a lot of different music, not just these CDs but for TV and other projects. I really love music as a whole, seeing people express themselves inspires me no matter what type of music it is, and I hope I can always find a way to mix that passion into my own music. I produce electro, hip hop, trip hop, dance, trance, neoclassical...I mix it all together.
The new album will be split into 2 parts rather than a double cd release. Tell us about the new album and the choice to release the discs separately.
I had the material for a double CD ready, but the problem was that it just sounded like two typical Index CDs stuck in one package. What I really wanted to do was have the first one be like a typical Index release, and the second darker and more aggressive, more atmospheric, and I know I made the right choice, because it means more, artistically, as a set of CDs that way. So you've got the first one, which represents the "Topiary", and the second, which is "Hades", while both at once hold the concept of beauty within darkness. It's just real. And as weird as some who know me think I am, this IS who I am, and every time I do one of these CDs it feels great because I am expressing what's inside, and everybody needs a way to do that. This is my way. Darkness and light, twisted together. There are some dark themes on this record, but never without the possibility of something positive, and that will be found in the words. On the surface it may seem dark, but if you really grasp it, people will actually see that it's positive. Also, a friend of mine urged me to make it two releases simply for economic reasons. So, I figured, I will release the first one now, that way people won't have to wait any longer for some music, and at the same time I can work the second part in the darker way I described. So I'm very pleased about that.
Can you go into more detail about the new album, such as themes and ideas?
Well, aside from what I mentioned about being inspired again because of writing in a different way, and also using different technology, there was a very personal reason behind it all. I felt likeI had time to reflect on life. That takes time, and then that comes back around to the songs.Topiary En Hades is very spiritual for me, for this moment in life. I really express myself in away that I have not before. So when you compare that idea to my lyrics, you might really see that I am talking about something at least semi-spiritual in every song, but the reason the songs are sometimes dark is because I am reflecting the often sad, or unpleasant human condition.On this record, you will see a new optimism in darkness. It's my life. I have been through hell, Imiraculously survived in spite of my own shortcomings, and now I am turning the corner and,hopefully, starting to shine as a human being for the first time in my life. I just have to say this, Ifound God to some extent. But I can't write lyrics about everything being positive without reflecting on the negative things I have been through. It fits perfectly with the Index tradition of mixing darkness and the light, which has always been the case. Only now, it means more to me as a person than ever.
Crayon Sky is perhaps your most personal song to date. Tell us about this track off of TEH1...
I think it's the most directly personal song, for sure. This song is basically about finding who I am. To use a metaphor, I was wandering in the desert my whole life without even realizing it. I've always thought I was a pretty good guy, but still lost, and I thought that maybe nobody knows me like that, knows who I really am. It feels that way. So the combination of not feeling lost anymore, in a spiritual sense, finding myself, but at the same as it's good, it's humbling because you suddenly look at your past and all you see is a life in ruin. It's like starting over. Maybe everybody does that in their own way, this was my particular path. Index has always been a bit more shadowy with the lyrics, but for this one I wanted to be a bit more direct about it. In another way, one might imagine it is about Satan. He got lost, he fell hard. At the end I say that only God knows my name. That's because I was arrogant and I thought I didn't need God, as Satan did. I learned the hardest way that I am actually mortal, so the song is my attempt to humbly fix my arrogance.
Recently you have spoken of your health issues and subsequent spiritual experience. Can you tell us about this and how it has impacted your life and your music?
Well, I'm pretty healthy now. But a while back, I wasn't. I was into a bad way of life. I was quite arrogant, you know, and a lot of negative things were defining my path and, unfortunately, I really didn't grasp the severity of it. There's a funny saying, something about how some people don't see God until they are flat on their backs. Well, that's sort of how it was for me, although I actually went through a rather long-term spiritual transformation. I reached a point where I figured out that I was on the wrong path, and, to put it simply, I went for a walk and asked God for help. It's actually funny to think about now, because it was very awkward for me, being the atheist I was. So it makes me laugh now, but I was in dire straights at the time so I figured I would try reaching out. Nobody could be more surprised than I that I received a response in the form of a brief mental vision of the entire universe. It's difficult to convey this moment, but I personally knew this was a response, it was very clear to me. My life feels different now. I feel like the same person, in that I have everything that was good about me, but different in that all the bad stuff has been replaced by new improvements and additions. It's an amazing thing, it really is. It makes me feel humble and great at the same moment. I really do not know how this has changed the music, other than what I am feeling when I write. Even though what I write now sounds like other stuff that I do, the energy that drives it is now positive where before it was negative. Being OK now, some time later, after lying in a hospital bed in the ER, not knowing if I would leave that place alive, it really makes you pause for a moment. I think it's something that effects all aspects of my life, sometimes indirectly, like with music, sometimes directly, like how I view others. It makes me feel bad that I had such a bad attitude about God for so long, only to find out the hard way that others were right and were only trying to help, be kind, etc. Better late than never, I suppose.
15 years ago you were the up-and comer and now you are the established veteran (akin to being "that old guy" at the club). How has that transition been and what advice would you give to the new up-and-comers based on your own experiences?
It's strange to be the old guy at the club. I used to see older people at the club and think, hey, that's funny. Now that's me. So, my friends and I laugh about it. But things are more open now than before, nobody cares now, it's all just mixed together. I don't go out to clubs that much, anyway, but it's humorous to consider. Our lives are not defined by just one thing, just music, or just design, but by everything, and sometimes people only know us for one thing, so it's not a complete picture. I've written a children's book, worked on advertising and design, animation and motion graphics, I'm into a lot of military and foreign policy stuff, but people reading this only know me as the Index guy. But even within music, I also write straight electro, house, trance, glitchy, ambient. So much of who we are is unknown to others. My advice would be, just be nice to everybody. Don't make any assumptions about how good you are, don't believe your own press. Just be humble and happy with the fact that you are doing what you want, and try your best at it. Everything passes in this world, so just enjoy it in the moment and be humble about it. Things may not be perfect, but think about how many others would love to do something like this but can't. Be grateful. Know yourself, know what you can do best, and then do it as best you can while you grow. Don't envy. My father was in the 82nd Airborne, the Special Forces, he fought in wars, lost a brother in Vietnam, he was awarded a Purple Heart and the Silver Cross and he retired a colonel. In fact I believe if it wasn't for politics he would have received the Congressional Medal of Honor. He never complains about that. I wish I could be as great as he is, but I'm not. Do the best you can with what you have, and be thankful that you can do it.
You have been making music for well over 15 years now, and you've never felt any sort of attachment to any label, genre , or "scene". Why is that and has that helped or hurt you, especially never being a "club" band?
I'm so inspired by so many types of music, art, architecture, and other things that I was always about using the best of those influences, and that being good enough, rather than trying to fit neatly into one scene and saying that I belong. Honestly, I do feel a strong connection to post industrial and dark electro, but I don't like so much labeling what I do as such because it belies the other influences. I think, commercially speaking, it has both helped and hurt. For those who are brand and genre oriented, Index was either too industrial for the techno people, too techno for the hip hop people, and too hip hop for the industrial people. Imagine a record label trying to market that. So it was a challenge that way, while at the same time we're in an era when more and more people expect music to just be mixed up, music for the sake of music, not pandering to a genre so a label can sell records. In that regard, Index has succeeded, and that's anadvantage that I look for. I do like club music, but that's not what was inspiring me at the start, so when I started writing my own stuff, I wasn't thinking about it working in a club environment.
You have been influenced by many artists and now you are being listed as an influence by many current artists. How do you react to that?
I really was influenced by many. In the beginning, stuff like early OMD, early 242, early electro stuff, it really made me think, I want to do this! And I still have that drive today. It's flattering to have people say that I have influenced their music. That's something I never saw coming so that's really nice. I appreciate that. I went through a period where I didn't know if what I wrote was worth anything, so gradually finding out, having people tell me that I influenced their music, that's a pretty big deal. That makes it all worth it, really, in its own unexpected way.
No one has seen what you look like until now. Do you think it is important to put a face to the music?
It probably is! It usually is for the sake of promotion I always felt silly doing the rock star thing, that didn't go over well for me. So not having tons of photos was part of that. On the other hand, I think by now people should be able to see how I am. I'm OK with that. You always see these photos of bands, look how wonderful we are. But on the other hand, fans like to see what you look like.
You have played live as Index a handful of times but not since the mid-nineties. Did you always envision Index as a live project and how would you imagine playing live in the future?
We saw it as something that should have a serious visual element, mostly in the form of video and motion graphics as a backdrop. We tried to meet that objective, but really it was never at the level we wanted because we simply couldn't afford it. The only way Index can be done live properly is for that visual element to exist. It would also require some extra hands, as I am only one guy and me standing in front of a computer, I'm not sure if that would cut it with the fans. On the other hand, for other music, such as the more dance/electro material that I am doing, I think that approach would be more plausible and appropriate, kind of a mixture of a DJ and live setting. I could see that happening for some of my other material, and also because I wouldn't have the issue of vocals to deal with. I can't do the vocals and deal with the instrumentation/laptop side at the same time. I have seen some other acts, doing similar music live with such a setup, but I never really saw Index being done that way. I always saw Index live as more of a band environment but maybe that needs to change.
You have a knack for word play when it comes to your lyrics, song and album titles. How does this tie in to the music?
I've played with words like that my whole life. Spoken as well as written. I don't think it's anything intentional, but I like how the mixing of words ties in with the idea of mixing tones in my music, like mixing dark with light. That goes back to my personality, I think. It 's funny how certain people think alike, in really unexpected, creative ways. I used to write everything backwards, as a kid. And I found one of my early influential artists, Egyptian Lover, doing backwords words in his music and on his 12" labels. So, not only did the music really connect with me and inspire me, but even little details like playing with words were the same. Lots of people are like that, we just have to find one another.
You do graphic design and multimedia work. Most of your cd's had artwork and design from others. Will you be taking over the look of your albums now?
I've always wanted to contribute to the look of the older releases. Sometimes the ideas got through, sometimes not. One of the good things about that was allowing another artist to add a personal interpretation. Overall, though, I prefer to just do it myself now, unless somebody offers a great idea, in which case I might be flattered and compelled to let them do it. But I really like the idea that, I wrote the music, and the lyrics, executed that, so it makes sense that I would complete the vision by also doing the visual work for it. If anybody wanted to contribute video work then I would be a lot more open minded, just for the fact that I don't have time to do everything at that level.
Up through your Black Light Twilight album your setup had been just 2 analogue synths and a sampler. Have you kept it pretty much the same over the years or have you experimented with digital or software based tools?
I felt really limited by the hardware. I was using an ASR-10, a Jupiter 6, and a Nord lead. And I'll tell you, I enjoyed that set up, but I got bored with it, and I felt like there were some things I could do more with soft tools. So I gravitated to soft synths, sequencers, etc and it really opened up a whole new world. I work more efficiently now, and it opens doors because I am afforded more time to play with different ideas. A lot of serendipitous things happen that way, so it's good. What I produce now is a mixture of soft stuff with samples. Whatever sound source I can get my hands on, I will use it.
Final thoughts/comments?
Just that I had a great time writing this CD. I had such a great time writing this, it's been a while since I enjoyed writing this much. I thank everybody for their support, and I hope you like it and my other work as well.
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